Why I haven't bought a MusicMan - an outsider's perspective.

[BenjaminStrange]

I've been playing a long time - 17 years, 6 of those professionally. Along the way, I've worked in music stores, been a tech, and am currently the Shop Manager at SF Guitarworks (a guitar/bass repair shop) in addition to my busy gigging schedule. During this entire time I've looked longingly at MusicMan basses and have yet to break down and buy one.

No doubt, MusicMan makes great basses, and have a fanatical following (I know - I've lurked on these boards for a while now). Seeing that the top brass are actively engaged with all of you on this forum, I thought I'd throw my two cents in. I really respect this company, and it's obvious that they care about what they do and listen to their players. Consider this constructive criticism.

I feel like every bass MusicMan makes is too focused on fancy electronics. There's not a passive one in the bunch, and there are MANY players out there who dislike active basses. I am one of them - I don't care for the tone, nor do I care for how they interact with my pedals, many of which are designed for high-impedance signals. I'm attracted mightily to the Bongo and the Big Al, but I don't want to pay all that money for a preamp that I'll just end up ripping out. I'd love to see a passive option, at an appropriately reduced price. I know a lot of R&D goes into designing these preamps, and my hat's off to you guys for doing it, but there are many of us that want just a simpler control scheme. The Big Al in particular would be rad with just a simple 5-way blade switch, volume, and tone. I for one install a super simple setup on all my own basses - a 3-way toggle wired straight to the jack. I need instant tonal changes, and don't want to be mucking about with all those sensitive active controls on stage.

My other stumbling block is that the basses I tend to dig have the wrong necks on them. I dig the neck on the Bongo somewhat, but the Big Al neck is far too small for my tastes. I assume that most of the neck pockets on MusicMan stuff is the same (no?) - it doesn't seem that difficult to offer two or more different neck options per bass. PRS has several neck options available on even their set neck guitars - surely MM could offer something like this for bolt-on instruments. I, for one, would snatch up a passive Big Al with a thick, fat neck in a heartbeat. (I could get really picky here: I prefer super chunky necks with a 7.25" radius, but I know the market can't support EVERY option. But offering an option of a thin, skinny neck vs. a fat, wide neck would be pretty slick.)

It seems that there's already tons of options available regarding color, pickguards, and pickup configurations - but nothing that addresses playability or electronics. It seems to me that MM may be missing out on a large cross section of bassists by not addressing these options.

And that's all I have to say about that. Flame away!

[RobertB]

not a flame, just a correction ... two basses with active bypass (passive modes/circuits):

Big AL

25th Anniversary

Granted, they're both recent offerings, but the funny thing is, you mentioned one of them by name, just before saying "I'd love to see a passive option".

Incidentally, the passive sounds of both of these basses consistently getting rave reviews. They sound GOOD.

I didn't read the whole post, so don't consider this a "retort". Just wanted to address that erroneous part of it.

[spencer]

I honestly, will not play another bass. Ernieball has the tone I want, it works in every situation. If you want a passive sound, which is usually described as less highs, just back off the treble and tada.. Any bass can sould like a boring P bass no other bass can copy a stingray or sterling.

Im the complete opposite, I wish ernieball would offer less, I have no need for a active/passive bass because to me an active bass with the treble rolled off in the extreme high freq sound identical to a passive bass.

As for the neck thickness, I can play both and I think people should just play the damn thing, but ernieballs answering that too, they offer the stingray with the wider neck now.

Ernieball is the only company doing this type of thing right now, they have so many new options and changes coming from them. I personally don't care for most of them but there answering to you guys who are super nit picky, but you will of course find something to nit pick about.

Why can't I get a stingray neck on a sterling
Why can I get a sterling pickup in a stingray
Why cant I get a singray preamp in my sterling
Why cant I get a red stingray with a blue bongo neck?

ENOUGH!!

[BenjaminStrange]

I'm aware that there's a passive switch on some of those basses - but I don't want to be paying for an expensive preamp that I will never use.

Also, I would hardly call passive sounds "boring" or "just lacking highs". Active electronics have a certain sound to them, just as passive does. There's a complexity of sound that you can only get from a passive instrument. MM doesn't really seem to address this fact in a way that's meaningful to many of us players who prefer passive instruments. I've heard Stingrays, Sterlings, and even a Bongo with the preamps ripped out, and guess what? They sound like a MusicMan, only with a passive character. It doesn't turn it into a "boring" P-bass or J-bass.

As for the neck issue, I was not aware that Stingrays are now available with a wide option - there's not much information to be gleaned from the main site about it, and most people aren't going to dig through this forum to find the kind of information that you regulars seem to possess. Still, if there's a neck option on one bass, why not all?

You tell me to just play the thing - I'm not that picky, but I do like an instrument that at least meets my tastes. You say that you'll never play another bass - well, that indicates that you're just as picky as I am. I'd love to play a Bongo or Big Al... they're close, but just a bit too far off to suit my tastes.

[strummer]

Hi Benjamin

I think that trying to cater to everyones' needs is a sure way to fail, and also your suggestions would just mean a huge lot of work for very little return.

Mind you, the neck option Slo Special on the Stingrays (a Sterling neck) is of course an answer to a market demend, but that demand has been deemed big enough to make it worth while.
If you think about it, I am sure you realize that the chunky neck option you want would be a very specialized order, and to make special passive options of basses known for their sound, preamp and all, really does not make a lot of sense. (Besides, it was tried with the Subs where a passive option was offered, but there weren't many passive subs sold compared to active ones).
Also, you want a price reduction for something that would increase costs at the factory, which I think makes all your wishes kind of far fetched.

cheers

[strummer]

Originally Posted by spencer

ernieballs answering that too, they offer the stingray with the wider neck now.

Erm no, what is offered is the Stingray with the slimmer Sterling neck. That is the Slo Special option on the Stingrays.

[bassmonkey]

Guys, don't feed the troll!

[spencer]

Originally Posted by strummer

Erm no, what is offered is the Stingray with the slimmer Sterling neck. That is the Slo Special option on the Stingrays.

Sorry thats what I meant

Also, I would hardly call passive sounds "boring" or "just lacking highs". Active electronics have a certain sound to them, just as passive does. There's a complexity of sound that you can only get from a passive instrument. MM doesn't really seem to address this fact in a way that's meaningful to many of us players who prefer passive instruments. I've heard Stingrays, Sterlings, and even a Bongo with the preamps ripped out, and guess what? They sound like a MusicMan, only with a passive character. It doesn't turn it into a "boring" P-bass or J-bass.

Long answer short, simply if you don't like the musicman sound, don't get one.. Ernieball will still go on selling thousands of instruments. Find another brand that fits the tone your looking for, there are many makers of the jazz and pbass and there all just that a jazz or pbass.

[BenjaminStrange]

I understand that my perfect neck wouldn't be a marketable option - but having two different neck options for each bass doesn't seem that difficult if they all use the same neck pocket. All that would need to change would be the label on the headstock, which... damn. I just remembered that all their headstocks are different. That would throw a twist into things at the factory, fo' sho'. Still, it would be nice to have at least one option for a neck profile on each instrument. Fender and Warmoth pull this off - perhaps MM could too, if they so desired.

As for the SUBs, I saw those and saw them as being a cheap MusicMan, not the same as the standard line with just a passive circuit. They were not the most elegant of instruments, you must admit - the passive circuit was not the primary reason that they didn't fare well. Having passive only MM basses would require some slightly different routing, which, if they are CNCed, wouldn't be that difficult. Those basses whose controls are mounted on a pickguard or control plate wouldn't really require any different routing at all. I know that doing anything deviating from standard processes can be expensive in a factory environment - I used to work at the Mesa/Boogie factory. But we would do custom stuff all the time there, and it didn't interrupt things too spectacularly.

I'm not complaining without merit - I think that MM is doing a fine job banging out damn good instruments, but there's just a couple of things that's prevented me from buying one through the years. I've been SO close to buying a Bongo and just ripping out the preamp... and the Big Al is quite tempting also, except the neck is far too small for me (plus I'd have to gut the preamp out of that one, too). So close, but yet so far.

[spencer]

By the way I don't mean to come off a an ernieball fan boy, protecting them I owned my own share of jazzes and p basses but always came back to ernieball.

I like their basses for
-simplicity [thought its not headed in that direction right now]
-Great Company with awesome quality
-Playability
-That sound you can only get with a MM
-The simple Eq's

[BenjaminStrange]

Eek... lots of negativity regarding P-basses and J-basses here. For the record, I've never owned a Fender instrument, nor do I aspire to those kind of tones. I also know that there are TONS of Fender clones out there - but there's not really anybody making MM style instruments with slightly different features. That's why I'm making my case here - I'm not the only bassist who's looked at MM basses and thought like this.

And no, I'm not a troll.

[syciprider]

Methinks that EBMM going after the purely passive market in their price range puts them square against the 800 lb gorilla of that market. So it seems smart sense for EBMM to make their offerings as distinct from Fender as possible.

As for the other points you brought up well, that is why we have plenty of choices out there. I initially wrote off the Big AL because of the Sterling neck but no one else offers the electronic suite on it and so I'm just going to suck it up (if that is possible with the fine products EBMM puts out) and adapt and overcome.

[syciprider]

Originally Posted by bassmonkey

Guys, don't feed the troll!

He's no troll.

Benjamin has good cred on Talkbass and his posts there reflect that.

[bassmonkey]

Originally Posted by syciprider

He's no troll.

Benjamin has good cred on Talkbass and his posts there reflect that.

He may have good cred. He is trolling, however. He has come onto the company website and posted inflammatory comments that are extremely disrespectful to EBMM and their business model. That's not trolling?

[BenjaminStrange]

Originally Posted by strummer

Hi Benjamin

I think that trying to cater to everyones' needs is a sure way to fail, and also your suggestions would just mean a huge lot of work for very little return.

Mind you, the neck option Slo Special on the Stingrays (a Sterling neck) is of course an answer to a market demend, but that demand has been deemed big enough to make it worth while.
If you think about it, I am sure you realize that the chunky neck option you want would be a very specialized order, and to make special passive options of basses known for their sound, preamp and all, really does not make a lot of sense. (Besides, it was tried with the Subs where a passive option was offered, but there weren't many passive subs sold compared to active ones).
Also, you want a price reduction for something that would increase costs at the factory, which I think makes all your wishes kind of far fetched.

cheers

Come to think of it, MM does this kind of specialization from time to time, as evidenced by their Dargie Delights. Specialized inlays, finish, labeling, etc. - only to sell a handful of instruments. Yet somehow they saw it as being worthwhile to do.