How to integrate my Piezo into my Rig?

[Willith]

Originally Posted by e.mate

I still think, that I fully understood what you guys are up to....but we are talking two different things here...
- I think JP uses a stereo cable, and the stereo jack of that cable goes into the EB Splitter Box, where the channels get seperated to two different outputs. Both signals are continously there, only the seperate volumes are controlled by pre-programmed "patches" from the floor board.
- If you use the Y-cable, you get a stereo jack on one side and two seperate Mono-jacks on the other. With this, you may connected to both inputs of e.g. the Boss AB2, which enables you to select between both signals...and that's what you guys are up to, right?
Of course, you may as well use two different standard guitar cables, as the Silo offers two outputs.

So, did I get that right?

I think we are getting closer...

This is the same GCX splitter JP uses: http://www.voodoolab.com/gcxdiagrams...Guitar_Rig.pdf

When I look at that diagram it clearly shows two outs from the guitar- 1mag, 1 piezo.


I think what you are saying, is that there is ONE cable used, plugged into the piezo, that is sent through the splitter, where it separates the mag from the piezo- and from the splitter/floorboard you select which option you'd like to use. Is that right?
And if that is the case, how does the splitter knowingly separate the two signals?

[e.mate]

Originally Posted by Willith

I think we are getting closer...

This is the same GCX splitter JP uses: http://www.voodoolab.com/gcxdiagrams...Guitar_Rig.pdf

When I look at that diagram it clearly shows two outs from the guitar- 1mag, 1 piezo.


I think what you are saying, is that there is ONE cable used, plugged into the piezo, that is sent through the splitter, where it separates the mag from the piezo- and from the splitter/floorboard you select which option you'd like to use. Is that right?

Yes, exactly what I'm saying The Voodoolab stuff is even more sophisticated....and more expensive at the same time....

Originally Posted by Willith

And if that is the case, how does the splitter knowingly separate the two signals?

Errrhhhh ....you tell it to do so, by switching it into two-to-one mode What you can't do with it, is merging the signals....it's either one OR the other. But that's what you guys wanted, right?!

[Willith]

Originally Posted by e.mate

Errrhhhh ....you tell it to do so, by switching it into two-to-one mode What you can't do with it, is merging the signals....it's either one OR the other. But that's what you guys wanted, right?!

...But in order for that to work, you still have to have two cables coming from the guitar (one from each jack) correct? That's what I don't understand, as I've never seen anyone doing that.

[SteveB]

Originally Posted by Willith

I think what you are saying, is that there is ONE cable used, plugged into the piezo, that is sent through the splitter, where it separates the mag from the piezo- and from the splitter/floorboard you select which option you'd like to use. Is that right?
And if that is the case, how does the splitter knowingly separate the two signals?

A "stereo" or more accurately, TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) cable carries one of the signals on the Tip and the other on the Ring. There's one more wire inside that cable than a "mono" or TS (Tip-Sleeve) cable. The sleeve acts sort of like a ground.

You can tell them apart at a glance because the jack on the end has one ring if it's a TS cable, and two rings if it's a TRS cable. Even on smaller cables.. look at your headphones sometime.. stereo (2-signals) application, so the jack will have two rings, whether you've got 1/4" jack headphones (ex: home stereo component) or 1/8"/3.5mm headphones (ex: Walkman/iPod).

So, then.. the Splitter box takes a TRS connection as its input, isolates the Tip signal and sends it to one TS output jack, and isolates the Ring signal and sends it to another TS output jack.

[e.mate]

Originally Posted by Willith

...But in order for that to work, you still have to have two cables coming from the guitar (one from each jack) correct? That's what I don't understand, as I've never seen anyone doing that.

Sure...that's because - as Steve is telling per above - pros tend to use those TRS (or for me simply stereo ) cables which you cannot tell from the ordinary guitar cable, unless you see the jack. But trust me, there are thousands of axe-brothers out there using a two-cable setup...or a two-wireless-transmitters setup, which is cooler

Pro-level TRS cords are extremely expensive (at least the ones I know), many brothers use custom made ones up to their own length specs.

[Jerry Jim]

Alright, once again.


I wanna use my stereo output of my Silo and go into the EBMM Splitter Box. Then I have two seperate signals. One cable will go directily into my guitar amp (the magnetic signal) and the other one (piezo) goes through a passive(or active?) DI into the PA.


So far, so good.


BUT:
I want to switch between clean, piezo, crunch, lead in the exact same way. So the piezo is just another option (or kind of new channel)

How do I wire that?


And question two:
How do I combine the piezo with the magnetic signal (in this case with the clean signal, just like Petrucci does)?



thanks!!!


all the best,
Jerry

[Willith]

Originally Posted by e.mate

Sure...that's because - as Steve is telling per above - pros tend to use those TRS (or for me simply stereo ) cables which you cannot tell from the ordinary guitar cable, unless you see the jack. But trust me, there are thousands of axe-brothers out there using a two-cable setup...or a two-wireless-transmitters setup, which is cooler

Pro-level TRS cords are extremely expensive (at least the ones I know), many brothers use custom made ones up to their own length specs.

Ugghh. I think I just don't understand how the splitter works. Or what the advantage of using a TRS cable over two mono cables is.

I found this video. It's pretty much what I'd like to do:

YouTube - Musicman JP piezo vs magnetic demonstration

YouTube - Musicman JP piezo vs magnetic demonstration

It looks like a Y cable, and I'm guessing it's run through a splitter. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Willith

Ugghh. I think I just don't understand how the splitter works. Or what the advantage of using a TRS cable over two mono cables is.

I found this video. It's pretty much what I'd like to do:
YouTube - Musicman JP piezo vs magnetic demonstration

It looks like a Y cable, and I'm guessing it's run through a splitter. Can anyone confirm/deny this?

I just plug one cable into my regular amp and a different cable into my acoustic amp. Easy as that.

And I'm pretty sure it's a Y cable

[darren]

The only advantage of using a TRS cable over two mono cables is that you're running one cable instead of two. That's it. Nothing to get tangled, nothing to trip over.

But there is a HUGE advantage to running magnetic and piezo separately, rather than running them down a single mono cable.

Also bear in mind that most pros like Petrucci are probably running two wireless units.

I've taken a different approach and have built a blendable splitter box. Details can be seen in this thread.

Now that i've experienced first-hand how fantastic Ernie Ball volume pedals are, i'm thinking of getting another one and modifying it with a blend pot and a buffer for the magnetic side. This works differently from the Ernie Ball stereo volume/pan pedal.

[Willith]

Originally Posted by That Guy

I just plug one cable into my regular amp and a different cable into my acoustic amp. Easy as that.

And I'm pretty sure it's a Y cable

That's the obvious answer, if you have two amps to work with. I don't, and that's not what we're talking about.

Originally Posted by darren

The only advantage of using a TRS cable over two mono cables is that you're running one cable instead of two. That's it. Nothing to get tangled, nothing to trip over.

But there is a HUGE advantage to running magnetic and piezo separately, rather than running them down a single mono cable.

Also bear in mind that most pros like Petrucci are probably running two wireless units.

I've taken a different approach and have built a blendable splitter box. Details can be seen in this thread.

I figured that was the only difference. I rarely use the Piezo, so this is my first time really trying to integrate&research it.
According to Petrucci's site, he doesn't use any wireless. And I'm pretty sure on all 3 DT DVDs you can see him using a (single) cable.

[e.mate]

correct, JP doesn't use any wireless...at least in the past few years, I havn't seen him on stage with WT. He's fanatic about tone, and the minimal risk of the signal being cut off in some corner of the stage might just bother him too much

[Jerry Jim]

Hey willith, that's pretty much, how I want it to work, but like I wrote the Silo does NOT have such a toggle switch for magnetic/piezo.
There's only a volume knob for the piezo.

[lenny]

Originally Posted by Willith

I don't buy the b.s. about having to run the piezo directly into a PA. I, like you, can get great tone through my amp when running directly through the piezo.

.

I totally disagree....you have obviously NEVER ran it through the PA.....unless your running the signal into an ACOUSTIC amp ...your regular amp cant reproduce the Frequencies ....so you shouldnt be talkin smack about something you havent tried.....you dont HAVE TO run into the PA...it just sounds FREAKIN HUGE AND AWESOME thats all..........


I use a DI box to the PA.......and use the blend on my Luke to acheive the mix i want ....or you could use a Volume pedal to blend ......try thr PA and then say there isnt a difference! ......Using logic there has to be ...because of the full range output of the Piezo and the fullrange representation of the PA speakers have Bass mids and highs and a frequency responce that allows it to do so...

[marduke]

Originally Posted by Willith

I don't buy the b.s. about having to run the piezo directly into a PA. I, like you, can get great tone through my amp when running directly through the piezo..

are you serious!! the piezo sounds completely different running to an amp rather than PA.. i can guarantee you that even through my Mesa Mark V the piezo will NEVER sound as good as running it through a DI into a PA.. I run mine through the PA when playing live, and i always get people coming up to me afterwards asking how i get the acoustic sound when there is clearly no acoustic. its also fun to watch peoples faces trying to figure out where the acoustic is!

[Willith]

Originally Posted by lenny

I totally disagree....you have obviously NEVER ran it through the PA.....unless your running the signal into an ACOUSTIC amp ...your regular amp cant reproduce the Frequencies ....so you shouldnt be talkin smack about something you havent tried.....you dont HAVE TO run into the PA...it just sounds FREAKIN HUGE AND AWESOME thats all..........


I use a DI box to the PA.......and use the blend on my Luke to acheive the mix i want ....or you could use a Volume pedal to blend ......try thr PA and then say there isnt a difference! ......Using logic there has to be ...because of the full range output of the Piezo and the fullrange representation of the PA speakers have Bass mids and highs and a frequency responce that allows it to do so...

"I totally disagree...you obviously" are an insecure CANADIAN who's coming on here trying to pick a fight by telling me what I have and have not done. I put in bold all of your antagonistic b.s.
Why did you even bother singling me out- I was AGREEING WITH SOMEONE ELSE. Are you dense? Why don't you go back, actually READ my posts, and THEN respond without acting like a total CANUCK for no reason. Your post is littered with inaccuracies about what I said and about what is "fact"...as well as spelling and grammatical errors.
Not only do you have absolutely NO idea of what type of music I play (and therefore what I would use a Piezo for)- you also don't even own a JP- so wtf do you think you're doing telling me how to run my gear?
Seriously, GTFO this thread before you further ruin it.


Ninja edit to appease MODS